Folding AA on my very first hand in a tournament

nevadanick said:

Not sure how every online site would handle it, but the normal distribution is that they would all tie for 2nd, chopping the remaining prize pool among the other 8 players.

OK - I'll stick my neck out once again. Given the OP situation, I fold. I mention it only so the OP knows there ARE players out there that would fold. Please - save your time thinking up cutesy comments or derogs about my ability. Have heard them all, and I still fold in most cases like this. Nothing will change my mind.

When wouldn't I fold? When I really didn't give a darn about winning or losing. To me, it is not about understanding the game or the odds. A multi-way all-in pf (especially first hand) is just an opportunity to test the poker gods, and approx 50% of the time I WILL get busted (+/- variance).

As to the why ? I'm a long time limit player, and I would rather grind it out with cards I can see, than play the odds of coinflips and variance. By NOT going all-in here, I CANNOT lose the hand. Online, folding during the donkfest opening hands, I will survive to play on.

I will agree that almost all NL players would say they would make the call, and they would, and I do understand their thinking. Nothing wrong with that. Just a preference in style of play.
.

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fair comments..

At least I've got one person on my side

fcumred said:

fair comments..

At least I've got one person on my side

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Are you still clinging to the belief that you are right then?

Can I ask you a question. If a friend said to you "let's flip a coin - if you win, i'll give you £40. If I win you give me £10".

What would you do?

Would you think - nah, it's too risky, I don't want to lose £10 and end up with nothing.

Or would you think - yes please, I should really only get £20 for winning a 50/50 bet for a £10 stake. £40 would be a great return!

If you can't see that this is such a simple no brainer gamble, then you quite simply shouldn't be playing poker. Poker IS a gamble. The whole game is about pot odds. No-one has ever been a winning player by taking zero risk. NevadaNick cannot be a winning player, and nor will you be if you follow his advice.

Let's put a different twist on this.

You're in a 9 handed SnG, and on the first hand get dealt AA in the big blind. Everyone goes all in before you (ie, 8 people are all in preflop, and you're the last to ask). Do you fold here? assuming:

if 9 are in the pot the prizes are distributed:
1st prize to whoever wins the hand
2nd/3rd prize split between everyone else

if 8 are in the pot the prizes are distributed:
3rd prize split between the 7 losers of the hand
1st/2nd played between the remaining two players.

The only way i would have folded is if 7 r more had gone all-in. Got to play the odds and this was a great opportunity to go deep into the tournament. I saw one reply where someone said they were in a tourney with 5 left, that's completely different scenario though because at that point the money difference is enormous.

CfPoker

It would make sense to fold. Just as it would make sense to fold AA if you were on the bubble in a satellite with a big stack and 2 or more players were all in. Just at it would make sense to fold AA if you were extremely short stacked (a fraction of a blind) and wouldn't achieve anything by tripling up, but instead could only move up the payscale if an opponent was knocked out before you. There has to be 5+ threads identical to this on the forum.

Your example isn't relevant here.

Re: positions in a 9-player SNG if everyone goes allin, I'm pretty sure that the person with the second best hand would get second, and so on. In the case of two people with matching strength hands the money would, I imagine, be split between them.

I'm a long time limit player, and I would rather grind it out with cards I can see, than play the odds of coinflips and variance.

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Umm seeing as there is more variance in limit this statement is pretty lolworthy.

Not touching the 'fold AA' issue with a barge pole as it's been done to death.

I don't care if the whole table goes all in and I'm the BB, I'm calling no matter what! I don't understand why, I don't care what read I have on the table, its the best hand statitacly pre flop, why wouldn't you?

Dorkus Malorkus said:

Re: positions in a 9-player SNG if everyone goes allin, I'm pretty sure that the person with the second best hand would get second, and so on. In the case of two people with matching strength hands the money would, I imagine, be split between them.

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No, there's no second best hand in poker. You'll have 1 winner and 8 losers, splitting 2nd and 3rd place prize money.

I do understand the thinking here, and while I won't congratulate you, I will say that I don't think it was such a bad decision. I often avoid any first hand encounters as that is when the whacko's are out, sort of like Halloween.

It was the first few limpers that would have given me pause as well.

You could look at it as you got there late and didn't get a chance to play the first hand. Or you thought it was another spam email from Alcoholics Anonymous and you just reacted instinctually.

we should set up a private sng to confirm this.

Dorkus Malorkus said:

we should set up a private sng to confirm this.

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No need. I am right.

robwhufc said:

No need. I am right.

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i hate to admit it, but he is lol

SanktheTank......did you place in this tournament for money or lose?

Lets do it Dorkus!

robwhufc said:

No, there's no second best hand in poker. You'll have 1 winner and 8 losers, splitting 2nd and 3rd place prize money.

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here is a not so great example of that, I was 3rd in chips but had the second best hand...so by somes reasoning i shouldve taken 2nd but didnt because there is only one winner
Table '96171771 1' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: suessehexe (18580 in chips)
Seat 6: belladonna05 (3742 in chips)
Seat 8: Lo stucchino (4678 in chips)
suessehexe: posts the ante 50
belladonna05: posts the ante 50
Lo stucchino: posts the ante 50
belladonna05: posts small blind 400
Lo stucchino: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to belladonna05 [Kd 3d]
suessehexe: raises 2400 to 3200
belladonna05: raises 492 to 3692 and is all-in
Lo stucchino: raises 936 to 4628 and is all-in
suessehexe: calls 1428
*** FLOP *** [3c 7h 7c]
*** TURN *** [3c 7h 7c] [6h]
*** RIVER *** [3c 7h 7c 6h] [4h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Lo stucchino: shows [Js Ks] (a pair of Sevens)
suessehexe: shows [Qc 7s] (three of a kind, Sevens)
suessehexe collected 1872 from side pot
belladonna05: shows [Kd 3d] (two pair, Sevens and Threes)
suessehexe collected 11226 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 13098 Main pot 11226. Side pot 1872. | Rake 0
Board [3c 7h 7c 6h 4h]
Seat 2: suessehexe (button) showed [Qc 7s] and won (13098) with three of a kind, Sevens
Seat 6: belladonna05 (small blind) showed [Kd 3d] and lost with two pair, Sevens and Threes
Seat 8: Lo stucchino (big blind) showed [Js Ks] and lost with a pair of Sevens

That's not a great example, you didn't have level stacks.

A better example is the Betfair SNG quirk. I know they had programmed it wrong, but basically they were paying out 1st prize to winner, and 2nd prize money to everyone else (which was why everyone was going all in first hand).

I think the only time AA is not going to have more than your share of the pot's chance of winning (in other words it's +EV to call) is if another player has AA and there are several other players in the pot with live draws. Even in the worst case, this only starts to become possible with 4 other players in the hand (5 total). So in other words, AA is almost always +EV preflop. I wouldn't even consider these remote possibilities early in a tournament when you need to be accumulating chips. Later when each spot or couple of spots is a significant money jump, it's possible that it could be a fold.

robwhufc said:

CfPoker
It would make sense to fold. Just as it would make sense to fold AA if you were on the bubble in a satellite with a big stack and 2 or more players were all in. Just at it would make sense to fold AA if you were extremely short stacked (a fraction of a blind) and wouldn't achieve anything by tripling up, but instead could only move up the payscale if an opponent was knocked out before you. There has to be 5+ threads identical to this on the forum. Your example isn't relevant here.

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This sums up folding AA preflop.

In the OP, however, the above situation is not relevant, so therefore I say again, no brainer.

As Doyle put it "Poker is not about winning pots, its about making the correct decisions"

So the `best decision` is getting all your chips in when u are a big favorite.

No matter what, in the OP, u r a big fav.

Folding AA in the first hand of a $3 MTT is totally wrong and this is why you don't do this.
Keep in mind, I wasn't even in the hand, but notice what the players are holding.
Player's are not any better at the $3 level, about the same IMO

PokerStars Game #18885224149: Tournament #95822334, $1.00+$0.10 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/07/17 - 11:04:00 (ET)
Table '95822334 3' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: urr17ks (920 in chips)
Seat 2: pikaña (1490 in chips)
Seat 3: Yonfucius (1580 in chips)
Seat 4: hansdampf11 (1820 in chips)
Seat 5: Tiger0719 (1280 in chips)
Seat 6: rolfjuunjor (1400 in chips)
Seat 7: WildonHoldem (1500 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 8: scoupie doo (2010 in chips)
Seat 9: Orion469 (1500 in chips)
Tiger0719: posts small blind 10
rolfjuunjor: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Orion469 [Qs 2d]
WildonHoldem: folds
scoupie doo: calls 20
Orion469: folds
urr17ks: calls 20
pikaña: calls 20
Yonfucius: calls 20
hansdampf11: calls 20
Tiger0719: calls 10
rolfjuunjor: raises 20 to 40
scoupie doo: calls 20
urr17ks: calls 20
pikaña: calls 20
Yonfucius: raises 40 to 80
hansdampf11: calls 60
Tiger0719: calls 60
rolfjuunjor: raises 40 to 120
scoupie doo: calls 80
urr17ks: calls 80
pikaña: raises 1370 to 1490 and is all-in -1
Yonfucius: folds
hansdampf11: folds
Tiger0719: calls 1200 and is all-in -2
rolfjuunjor: calls 1280 and is all-in -3
scoupie doo: calls 1370
urr17ks: calls 800 and is all-in -4
*** FLOP *** [3h Ah 9s]
*** TURN *** [3h Ah 9s] A♣
*** RIVER *** [3h Ah 9s Ac] [Tc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
scoupie doo: shows [2c 2h] (two pair, Aces and Deuces)
pikaña: shows [8s Jd] (a pair of Aces)
scoupie doo collected 180 from side pot-3
rolfjuunjor: shows [7s Th] (two pair, Aces and Tens)
WildonHoldem has returned
rolfjuunjor collected 360 from side pot-2
Tiger0719: shows [7c 6s] (a pair of Aces)
rolfjuunjor collected 1440 from side pot-1
urr17ks: shows [4d 3c] (two pair, Aces and Threes)
rolfjuunjor collected 4760 from main pot
Jack731015 is connected
Karenslilsis is connected



My point, based on this hand, YOU NEVER FOLD ACES, at the micro level because of the bad play.

i don't have good luck with aa. being there were alot of people in the hand i would fold

YAWN - Folding AA all-in first hand discussion has been beaten deader than Christopher Reeves. Either you will or you won't and it seems nobody is going to change thier mind not matter the examples/discussion.

muddawgg said:

i don't have good luck with aa. being there were alot of people in the hand i would fold

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Smashes head violently against desk.

You don't like accumulating lots of chips in MTT's? Each to their own i suppose.

robwhufc said:

Smashes head violently against desk.

You don't like accumulating lots of chips in MTT's? Each to their own i suppose.

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best give up before you need stitches

robwhufc said:

Smashes head violently against desk.

You don't like accumulating lots of chips in MTT's? Each to their own i suppose.

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oh wow, thought this was an sng, now that I realize it's an mtt this is even more horrible. A sng maybe you figure since the money differences aren't much you can outplay other players and have a better than 50% chance of getting 1st/2nd. I'd disagree but you may have a chance of having somewhat of a point. But an MTT... this is just beyond horrible. I guess this is why poker is still profitable though. So many people thinking just short term instead of maximizing profit (ie making it above 0).

In a $3 tourney, yeah you should play those AA's

If it's a $50 or $100 tourney I could see letting them go first hand!

POKERYALL said:

In a $3 tourney, yeah you should play those AA's

If it's a $50 or $100 tourney I could see letting them go first hand!

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The amount of the buy-in is irrelevant if the person playing is properly bankrolled for the event.