***Jumpstarting January Chat Thread***

[PattyR]

after a terrible start to the day..this hand makes up for everything and i end up positive 1.5 BI on the day after being minus 8BI...WOOHOO suckouts feel greattttt!!!!

Full Tilt, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

Hero (MP2): $49.93 (499.3 bb)
MP3: $11.08 (110.8 bb)
CO: $5.28 (52.8 bb)
BTN: $13.76 (137.6 bb)
SB: $4.11 (41.1 bb)
BB: $20.48 (204.8 bb)
UTG+1: $7.02 (70.2 bb)
UTG+2: $8.98 (89.8 bb)
MP1: $11.25 (112.5 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is MP2 with 4

A

3 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 4 folds, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) A

3

4

(2 players)
BB bets $0.65, Hero raises to $2.60, BB raises to $20.18 and is all-in, Hero calls $17.58

Turn: ($41.01) 4

(2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($41.01) T

(2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results:
Spoiler:
$41.01 pot ($2.00 rake)
BB showed 3

3

(a full house, Threes full of Fours) and lost (-$20.48 net)
Hero showed 4

A

(a full house, Fours full of Aces) and won $39.01 ($18.53 net)

 

[Jurn8]

ahh! C9 has soooooo many cards!

 

[slycbnew]

Ya know, it's just not possible for me to start a limit without dropping 2bi's right off the bat, even if it's a limit I've played before - here's the first of the 2bi's (I eventually got back above zero... ), first hand of the session.

Villain and I have played 1.4K hands together (bluffy lagtard) and my hand is underrepped cuz of the squeeze. I was sorta tickled by his hand, it was a little worse pf than I expected - but wasn't much outside the range I gave him.

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $116.15
MP: $109.40
CO: $100.00
BTN: $113.00
SB: $107.45
Hero (BB): $100.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BB with A♦ Q♦

2 folds, CO raises to $3, BTN calls $3, SB calls $2.50, Hero raises to $15, CO raises to $100 all in, 2 folds, Hero calls $85 all in

Flop: ($206.00) 6♣ 6♠ 2♠ (2 players - 2 are all in)

Turn: ($206.00) 5♠ (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($206.00) J♦ (2 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: $206.00
CO shows 8♥ 6♥ (three of a kind, Sixes)
Hero shows A♦ Q♦ (a pair of Sixes)
CO wins $203.00
(Rake: $3.00)

 

[Kasanova King]

Ya know, it's just not possible for me to start a limit without dropping 2bi's right off the bat, even if it's a limit I've played before - here's the first of the 2bi's (I eventually got back above zero... ), first hand of the session.

Villain and I have played 1.4K hands together (bluffy lagtard) and my hand is underrepped cuz of the squeeze. I was sorta tickled by his hand, it was a little worse pf than I expected - but wasn't much outside the range I gave him.

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $116.15
MP: $109.40
CO: $100.00
BTN: $113.00
SB: $107.45
Hero (BB): $100.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BB with A♦ Q♦

2 folds, CO raises to $3, BTN calls $3, SB calls $2.50, Hero raises to $15, CO raises to $100 all in, 2 folds, Hero calls $85 all in

Flop: ($206.00) 6♣ 6♠ 2♠ (2 players - 2 are all in)

Turn: ($206.00) 5♠ (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($206.00) J♦ (2 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: $206.00
CO shows 8♥ 6♥ (three of a kind, Sixes)
Hero shows A♦ Q♦ (a pair of Sixes)
CO wins $203.00
(Rake: $3.00)

Do you generally call a shove with AQs pre-flop??

just wondering

 

[WVHillbilly]

Do you generally shove with AQs pre-flop??

just wondering

He didn't shove with it. He called a shove with it and obviously it was due to a read that his opponent was lolbad.

 

[Kasanova King]

He didn't shove with it. He called a shove with it and obviously it was due to a read that his opponent was lolbad.

Fixed my post right before I read yours, that is what I meant. Even with a read, why take the risk that he may have something better?? Why not wait until a better opportunity to call a shove?? I mean, even with his read, he was still only a 60/40 favorite...and online, just as good as a coin flip - for his entire stack??

 

[slycbnew]

lol, I rarely call shoves pf w AQs - Villain is a reg that I've played 1,400+ hands with.

He absolutely loves to shove over squeezes (from my notes on him), he knows I could be squeezing with a mediocre hand, and he knows I'll be reluctant to call a shove without a premium hand (I'm sure that's why he's shoving 86s).

Based on my notes and the stats I have on him, I figured AQs was pretty good against his range.

 

[slycbnew]

Fixed my post right before I read yours, that is what I meant. Even with a read, why take the risk that he may have something better?? Why not wait until a better opportunity to call a shove?? I mean, even with his read, he was still only a 60/40 favorite...and online, just as good as a coin flip - for his entire stack??

60/40 is plenty for me to put 100bb's in.

 

[WVHillbilly]

I'll take 60/40s all day long.

One thing to consider is that this guy's not going to keep his money for long so you should be willing to take your chances at it whenever you get them. Also with this type of player your money is not lost until it's in the hands of a decent player. If he wins I just consider it a loan (one that he'll pay back with interest most of the time).

 

[c9h13no3]

60/40 is plenty for me to put 100bb's in.

BUT THAT'S JUST AS GOOD AS A COINFLIP AND THERE'S ALL THAT DEAD MONEY IN THERE SO WE MIGHT ONLY MAKE LIKE 15 BUCKS ON AVERAGE OMFG OMFG OMFG YOU'RE NOT A NIT AND IT BLOWS MY MIND!

 

[slycbnew]

BUT THAT'S JUST AS GOOD AS A COINFLIP AND THERE'S ALL THAT DEAD MONEY IN THERE SO WE MIGHT ONLY MAKE LIKE 15 BUCKS ON AVERAGE OMFG OMFG OMFG YOU'RE NOT A NIT AND IT BLOWS MY MIND!

See, screwing around w PLO was good for me!

 

[BelgoSuisse]

Why not wait until a better opportunity to call a shove?? I mean, even with his read, he was still only a 60/40 favorite...and online, just as good as a coin flip - for his entire stack??

+EV calls are +EV, whether you risk a cent or a billion. Anytime you decide to fold instead, you're just burning money.

 

[Kasanova King]

+EV calls are +EV, whether you risk a cent or a billion. Anytime you decide to fold instead, you're just burning money.

I understand that but it was a high risk call. Villain could have easily had a hand where it would have been a -EV call. About 15 of them, actually.

 

[c9h13no3]

I understand that but it was a high risk call. Villain could have easily had a hand where it would have been a -EV call. About 15 of them, actually.

You're the best poker player I've ever seen. Can I stake you in the wsop? I am not kidding.

Spoiler

I am kidding

Oh, whups, spoiler tags don't work :|

 

[Kasanova King]

You're the best poker player I've ever seen. Can I stake you in the WSOP? I am not kidding.

Spoiler

I am kidding

Oh, whups, spoiler tags don't work :|

Sure, I'll take a stake, no worries.I'm far from the best player in the world and I've never said I am. I am a much better live player than online, although I have yet to lose any real money online, I have yet to make any as well.

I can assure you that making an all in call at any decent live table pre-flop with AQs is a negative EV play in the vast majority of cases. I'm just going by personal experience...but to each, his own.

 

[WVHillbilly]

I understand that but it was a high risk call. Villain could have easily had a hand where it would have been a -EV call. About 15 of them, actually.

You're right that there are hands that he holds that we're a dog against, but there are obviously MORE hands that he has which we crush. I'd say we're about a 60/40 favorite vs. his RANGE and that's all that matters.

You can't say that if your opponent shows up with AA here that calling was a mistake because it's his range that matters. His actual cards are meaningless. Works the same if you call a nit's 3bet shove (say QQ+/AK) preflop with QQ. If he happens to show AK this time and you win it doesn't mean your call was correct.

 

[Kasanova King]

You're right that there are hands that he holds that we're a dog against, but there are obviously MORE hands that he has which we crush. I'd say we're about a 60/40 favorite vs. his RANGE and that's all that matters.

You can't say that if your opponent shows up with AA here that calling was a mistake because it's his range that matters. His actual cards are meaningless. Works the same if you call a nit's 3bet shove (say QQ+/AK) preflop with QQ. If he happens to show AK this time and you win it doesn't mean your call was correct.

That makes sense of course. And like you said earlier, against a player like, even if you lost, you would most likely end up getting your money back, at some point. (As long as he doesn't donk it off to a better player first). This is generally a safe bet while playing online, against players that you know won't hit and run. Playing live is usually a different story, especially in a casino where most likely, players like that:

A. Will hit and run.

B. Will lose your money to a better player, usually before you have a chance to get it back.

So although making a play like that could be a +EV play online, in real life, on a live table, you're most likely going to get burnt. I see it happen every time I play live.

 

[c9h13no3]

Stop tapping the glass plz.

 

[BelgoSuisse]

Stop tapping the glass plz.

Meh. Only relevant if he's rich enough to become a regular donator beyond microstakes...

 

[eNTy]

 

[WVHillbilly]

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players

That makes sense of course. And like you said earlier, against a player like, even if you lost, you would most likely end up getting your money back, at some point. (As long as he doesn't donk it off to a better player first). This is generally a safe bet while playing online, against players that you know won't hit and run. Playing live is usually a different story, especially in a casino where most likely, players like that:

A. Will hit and run.

B. Will lose your money to a better player, usually before you have a chance to get it back.

So although making a play like that could be a +EV play online, in real life, on a live table, you're most likely going to get burnt. I see it happen every time I play live.

Notice the bolded part of the hh. Live play is irrelevant and if it's a good call online, it's a good call live. Now if you're saying that a live player's range is never worse there, then fold away. But if you can get in as a 60/40 favorite, live or online, I would recommend you take that "flip".

C9: Sorry I can't help it.

 

[Marginal]

I just need to remind myself I am getting my money in good, but what consolation is that when the BR keeps going down?

 

[cAPSLOCK]

I just need to remind myself I am getting my money in good, but what consolation is that when the BR keeps going down?

It is cold comfort. But if it's true, and you stay within reasonable bankroll limits... well you know the rest.

Hey.. hows your dad? I am pretty sure I figured it out.

 

[cjatud2012]

I understand that but it was a high risk call. Villain could have easily had a hand where it would have been a -EV call. About 15 of them, actually.

If it were a tourney, it'd be a high risk call because of ICM. But in a cash game, it's probably fine, especially with a read, since the value of each chip is the same as its dollar amount. I argued for folding in this thread: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/25-nl-he-full-ring-25nl-168924/, but Double-A and sly argued the other way, and I think it makes more sense to call.

 

[cAPSLOCK]

OK... sorta serious question.

Do you think since I have the chicken avatar at FTP I get 3bet and c/r-ed more, less, or it makes no difference? Overall.