*** Mo' Money May Chat Thread ***

[orangepeeleo]

I'm feeling like such a fishing luck box right now, my HEM says i'm 6.5 BI's above EV, which is good but also means i've been a right lucky b*****d.

At 6 max say we raise it up otb w/ A2s for example, flop comes QK4 double suited, we get lead into, we raise, guy pushes, can we call here?? We've got 2 cards to come so i've been thinking there isn't a bad chance to hit our flush, plus we maybe have ace outs too, how about instead of raising we push? Giving ourselves some FE?? Apparently this isn't the done thing as HEM is saying i've been rather lucky of late lol

Maybe i should stop looking at my EV graph b/c it generally makes me feel bad either way!

 

[BelgoSuisse]

Is this for general poker or would you say it is required more as you enter the mid stakes, highstakes or something like 100nl+?

you know, it's hard to say, because the levels lower than the one you're currently playing typically seem so easy to beat in retrospect.

 

[eNTy]

Just got AA all in pre vs AA 200BB deep and all I needed was 1 more heart on the river to scoop that sjit !

 

[switch0723]

MP3 is a 78/30/6 drooler who loves to push all his chips in the middle and hope for the best. Really wish I'd added on up to $100 when he doubled up 2 hands before this one.

Full Tilt, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

CO: $54.35 (108.7 bb)
BTN: $25.75 (51.5 bb)
SB: $91.25 (182.5 bb)
BB: $99 (198 bb)
UTG+2: $61.90 (123.8 bb)
MP1: $50 (100 bb)
Hero (MP2): $65.65 (131.3 bb)
MP3: $122.55 (245.1 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is MP2 with 7

7

UTG+2 raises to $2, MP1 folds, Hero calls $2, MP3 calls $2, 3 folds, BB calls $1.50

Flop: ($8.25) 7

7

T

(4 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets $5, Hero calls $5, MP3 raises to $120.55 and is all-in, BB folds, UTG+2 calls $54.90 and is all-in, Hero calls $58.65 and is all-in

Turn: ($195.45) 4

(3 players, 3 are all-in)
River: ($195.45) 9

(3 players, 3 are all-in)

Results: $195.45 pot ($3.00 rake)
MP3 showed 4

T

(two pairs, Tens and Sevens) and lost (-$65.65 net)
UTG+2 showed Q

Q

(two pairs, Queens and Sevens) and lost (-$61.90 net)
Hero showed 7

7

(four of a kind, Sevens) and won $192.45 ($126.80 net)

Sick spot for utg+2

Switch could you give me abit of insight at your 100nl experiences?

I dont think i can give any insight coz i think im doing it wrong

 

[eNTy]

Jesus christ this kind of missclicks don't help my EV line
Table popped up when I was closing down session and accidentally insta-re-potted the turn :\.
Still I was 80% on flop and he was 80/16 so I don't feel absolutely horrible about it.
Pretty sick that it was 200BB deep though.

Seat 8: crocodile65 ( $41.55 USD )
Seat 9: entYy ( $77.25 USD )
Seat 10: Dready79 ( $58.16 USD )
edme posts small blind [$0.15 USD].
crocodile65 posts big blind [$0.25 USD].
Dealt to entYy [ Qd Ks ]
** Dealing down cards **
entYy raises [$1.00 USD]
Dready79 calls [$1.00 USD]
martymcflyjr folds
luck4me555 folds
xxMko folds
stylo31 calls [$1.00 USD]
hartz_fear folds
edme folds
crocodile65 calls [$0.75 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7h, Qc, 8d ]
crocodile65 checks
entYy bets [$3.00 USD]
Dready79 folds
stylo31 folds
crocodile65 calls [$3.00 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4d ]
crocodile65 bets [$10.15 USD]
entYy raises [$40.60 USD]
crocodile65 calls [$27.40 USD]
entYy wins $3.05 USD
crocodile65 shows [8s, 4s ]
entYy shows [Qd, Ks ]
** Dealing River ** [ 7s ]
entYy wins $82.25 USD from main pot

Now 10 buy ins above EV for the month. Whoopsie ?

 

[zachvac]

Ah belgo, also you state

"I got an engineering degree and a PhD. Most of the long term winners in this game are seriously good at math and science.

That, and a lot of time spent on learning/playing/analysing.

It's really the same for any type of endeavor. Find something you have some talent for, and then work hard on it. And when it comes to talent, poker - especially online - requires the kind of mind that also excels at math."

Is this for general poker or would you say it is required more as you enter the mid stakes, highstakes or something like 100nl+?

I was actually discussing this the other day with someone else. It's amazing how basically every good poker player is usually very intelligent and is extremely competitive. If you talk to the good poker players, they all have something in common in that they hate to lose and have a great work ethic. The combination of the two along with the fact that they are intelligent always seems to motivate them to work their ass off to get better at poker and it seems to work.

 

[Jurn8]

is it possible to have the hate to lose and great work ethic but not be super duper intelligent. Do most or the majority of all poker pro's excel at maths/science? Or are they generally just clever people? Or is there the guy who has raw poker talent?

Just interested in this topic area tbh

 

[zachvac]

is it possible to have the hate to lose and great work ethic but not be super duper intelligent. Do most or the majority of all poker pro's excel at maths/science? Or are they generally just clever people? Or is there the guy who has raw poker talent?

Just interested in this topic area tbh

Obviously no one knows this for sure but personally I think it seems like just because there's such a logic aspect in poker which has many of the same skills of math/science. So I don't think it's because they're good at math/science but because they possess the same traits required to be good at math/science if that makes sense. I personally don't believe there's such thing as raw poker talent, perhaps a talent for reading people, but that's even less of a factor online.

 

[F Paulsson]

is it possible to have the hate to lose and great work ethic but not be super duper intelligent. Do most or the majority of all poker pro's excel at maths/science? Or are they generally just clever people? Or is there the guy who has raw poker talent?

Just interested in this topic area tbh

I don't believe in "raw poker talent," no. People tend to talk about Stu Ungar or Phil Ivey in this department, but while 20 years ago you could probably get by on just "instinct", with today's tools and refined strategies, your instinct - read: unconscious guesses - are unlikely, bordering on certainly not, going to outplay someone who's done their homework on the percentages and equity. Someone recently said (and was quoted by The Poker Grump, I think) that today there are 100 players who would have been the world's best player 10 years ago. I think there's a lot of truth in that.

I don't think you have to excel at math, but I do think you need to have enough of it in you to be able to think out strategies for yourself (away from the table). While it's theoretically possible to just read the work that others have performed, you're not likely to be able to mentally digest - and remember it - it as well if you don't know how to perform the calculations yourself.

 

[BelgoSuisse]

So I don't think it's because they're good at math/science but because they possess the same traits required to be good at math/science if that makes sense.

This, exactly.

 

[feitr]

Just read thread through since my last post and its interesting to see nobody apart from rex has played online for like 5+ years. However alot of people have made great progression and success like zach and belgo up at 200nl+.
what is the average growth of a player in terms of cash games do you think ? Is it normal for people to go from 10nl to 100nl in a year or is the average alot longer etc?

Switch could you give me abit of insight at your 100nl experiences?

I don't think you have had to play online for long to become much better than the average player. I've read about players who crushed the games further back and either lost their rolls or became break even/losing players as the games got tougher. I've played for slightly over one year off and on to answer your original question.

Average time to move up stakes completely depends on the player and you have to ask yourself what you want out of poker. What stakes do you want to be playing in a year's time and how often do you want to be playing? Not every needs/should be thinking about getting to nl1k+. I know a guy who moved from nl50 to nl5k in under a year. Some guys may take 2 years to move up a stake. Ultimately it doesn't really matter as it is more related to what you want out of poker.

As for characteristics of a good poker player, i wouldnt' worry about that. I don't think a good knowledge of math is that necessary, as the math involved in poker is pretty basic (most of it becomes intuitive anyways), unless you get into some in depth EV calculations, which isn't necessary to be successful. I think most good players will be competitive, but that is logical as competitive ppl are more likely to play poker in the first place adn more likely to be the ones who will study/put time into getting good. Being intelligent is also a no brainer, although i'm sure one could be a very solid poker player without being that smart. But things such as retention, analysis, integration, theory of mind, etc. that are related w/ making sound poker decisions also tend to be correlated with intelligence. But i don't think there is a natural talent for poker per se, it is more that certain characteristics are more conducive to making more correct decisions. Some of the most important, such as emotional control, aren't related to intelligence at all.

 

[tenbob]

Sigh. 1400 hands today, not a single set (not good when your playing FR), for good measure I run AA into 67s in a 4bet pot, he rekoned his bottom pair was good (160bb deep), KK into AA and had to fold KK when ze ace flops and my 2 opponents go nuts.

-6 buyins

 

[Jurn8]

I don't think you have had to play online for long to become much better than the average player. I've read about players who crushed the games further back and either lost their rolls or became break even/losing players as the games got tougher. I've played for slightly over one year off and on to answer your original question.

Average time to move up stakes completely depends on the player and you have to ask yourself what you want out of poker. What stakes do you want to be playing in a year's time and how often do you want to be playing? Not every needs/should be thinking about getting to nl1k+. I know a guy who moved from nl50 to nl5k in under a year. Some guys may take 2 years to move up a stake. Ultimately it doesn't really matter as it is more related to what you want out of poker.

As for characteristics of a good poker player, i wouldnt' worry about that. I don't think a good knowledge of math is that necessary, as the math involved in poker is pretty basic (most of it becomes intuitive anyways), unless you get into some in depth EV calculations, which isn't necessary to be successful. I think most good players will be competitive, but that is logical as competitive ppl are more likely to play poker in the first place adn more likely to be the ones who will study/put time into getting good. Being intelligent is also a no brainer, although i'm sure one could be a very solid poker player without being that smart. But things such as retention, analysis, integration, theory of mind, etc. that are related w/ making sound poker decisions also tend to be correlated with intelligence. But i don't think there is a natural talent for poker per se, it is more that certain characteristics are more conducive to making more correct decisions. Some of the most important, such as emotional control, aren't related to intelligence at all.

Interesting Feitr.

Yeah I have made some plans and shit for future poker and I think they are realistic. I am still working hard and wanting to progress in the pokahz world

 

[vanquish]

i'm sad.

my ipod is broken and everyone hates me.

 

[S93]

i'm sad.

my ipod is broken and everyone hates me.

Your Ipod can be fixed and every one on CC <3 u

 

[vanquish]

Your Ipod can be fixed and every one on CC <3 u

no the guy at the apple store said theres nothing they can do and the warranty expired

 

[switch0723]

get 1 for like 20k fpps on stars

 

[Irexes]

Last 12k hands at 100nl and it goes up, but more importantly I feel I played well.

I spent half of April at 50nl working some things out after a breakeven stretch at 100nl and finally, possibly, hopefully I think I've found my game. I guarantee I've still got some holes but I think I've found a way to take the strengths of my MTT game and use them in Ring. Can't even articulate what I mean by that yet, other than it would make Belgo and C9 cry if they saw the value I'm giving up on some hands, but I feel comfortable now and hopeful that I can sustain a decent win rate and get back to 200nl and stay there at some point this year. I think I'll need to make changes if I move up but I'm beating up the fish and confusing the regs atm which is lovely.

Don't get me wrong I'm not basing this on the 12k hands but on the difference between the way I played this 12k and the 300k hands that preceded them.

woohoo

(cue doomswitch)

 

[vanquish]

get 1 for like 20k fpps on stars

i only have like 6k FPPs lol

 

[StormRaven]

I'm sad for you, I would be sad if my IPod were to break.

I agree with the anaylisis Fetir has given about a good poker player. It took me a long time to realize I was making very common mistakes in poker and started asking good players at the casino for some help. Now I anaylize almost every aspect of my play always striving to improve. You've got to hate losing and have a competive nature and an open mind, ability to think logically among other things.

On a side note, I've spent way too much money the past couple weeks on ps trying to win a seat for the wsop. Anyone else trying for this and doing any good?

 

[Jagsti]

At what point would you guys consider giving up? Discuss, This is a serious question!

 

[eNTy]

Neva !

 

[Pokertron3000]

At what point would you guys consider giving up? Discuss, This is a serious question!

Having read your blog and read about other peoples downswings, that even the best can lose hundreds/thousands/more I would say a break is in order rather than quitting. Either a few weeks off or just play a few sngs try get a few wins under your belt. I am no where near the stakes you guys play but time off always gets me up for playing my best poker, sometimes I stop for a week and watch some poker on tv, sometimes I ignore it for week altogether.

Really though if its stressing you that much ask yourself if you are still enjoying it, if not chill for a bit and that passion for the game will return.

 

[Irexes]

At what point would you guys consider giving up? Discuss, This is a serious question!

Three reasons

1) I was losing money in a way that affected my family and things beyond poker (essentially I developed a gambling problem)

2) I was unable to beat any level - assuming I avoided (1) I'd drop down if I started losing big and eventually hopefully start winning again. If I got down to the micros and still couldn't win, that would be it.

3) It stopped being enjoyable


1 is a case of discipline. 2 is unlikely unless the average player gets lot a lot better and I don't and 3.. well to say I love poker an understatement.

 

[Pokertron3000]

^^^^ I agree with rexes post exept I am only a Microstakes level player . Ah well at least I am beating it lol.

Its a good point about the money thing though, are you actually losing any money that is affecting your family?

I guess enjoyment is the biggest thing and sometimes it drives ya mental but I really enjoy poker.